Masking, I Really Need Help to Understand it

[astronomynut]

I'm going ahead and pulling the trigger on the purchase of the license for this software. I sure hope I can figure out how to use it. Still having difficulty with the Masking part, but that will eventually come along.

I'm also having some weird happenings when I use AutoDev on my M33 or other similar type photos. Seems that when I use it, I get garish colour for the sky, in these cases very red. I don't get that when I use the manual one. Of course, I've not a clue as to whether the manual one does anything when you click on it. I am guessing that you manually input changes, and that is beyond me right now.

I've tried watching the Star Tools how to videos, but the presenter is so fast, and even with pause, I just cannot follow along. His cursor is just too quick for me to freeze frame things.

Anyway, once I get the license, and can actually save something, I will post a reduced version on Google Drive, with it open to those with Star Tools, who wish to try teaching me just what is done to get the most out of an image, without over overdoing it. Caley

[Cheman]

Caley
without seeing your image, its sorta hard to really help, but try this. For now forget about a mask. Open your file, do an auto dev. Yes the coulours and things in gereral may very well look bad, strange etc.
The autodev is doing this extreme stretch so you can see whats there. Dont worry about it. It will show you if you need to crop the very edge(probably) among other things. Keep or dont the autostretch, doesnt matter. Crop as needed. Then open wipe. Set temp autodev to yes. Then click Do. Dont worry yet about any other settings. Let Startools do the wipe and see what it looks like. Click Keep. at this point no streching will be visible. Image will still be very dark. Open either auto dev, or as I like to do, develop. In develop, click on home in once, the image should get a bit brighter. Click on home in again, now its brighter still. Click a few more time, see what happens. Wipe may not have done a great job yet, depending on your data, you may have dark anomolies screwing thing up or you may need to use the vignette mode. No matter. For now just see if startools shows you more of your data.
Report back.
Again, I urge you to post a dropbox link to your stacked data, It will really help us help you.
I also could not figure this software out at first, but after help from Ivo and others, I've found this to be by far the easiest and most effective software for me. I can do in half an hour what it used to take me hours in other software, and I now get better results. It may not be everyones cuppa tea, but I LOVE it.
Che

[astronomynut]

Che, Thanks so much for putting up with me. I dropped in my limited data M33, just about 85 minutes worth, and followed what you said. Welllll, the background turned kind of mottled mauve, and the galaxy turned a combination of lime green with some white. Really strange.

I just sent my money for the license, and it will probably be several days before they get back with me with it. Apparently they create a custom one for each order.

As for processing, I usually take about 15 minutes with DSS and then another 10 with GIMP, and I pretty much am done. M33 has been one of my most difficult objects to process. I am thinking it isn't my processing so much, as it is my limited exposure times, and total data. Once I get the license, I will post this data on Google Drive for anyone who wants to play with it. Caley

[admin]

Hi Caley,

The license and instructions should be in your Inbox. Given that you're still on the fence on whether ST is going to work out for you (of course I hope/think it will, but I'm a little biased ) I'm happy to give you a refund if we can't get your data to look half decent in a way you can replicate. I'm looking forward to the data in Google Drive so we can help you with accomplishing that.

Clear skies,

[astronomynut]

Ivo, Found the email, and with just a little difficulty, seem to have gotten things working.

As for ever getting anything useable out of the software, time will only tell. For now, using the same image that others downloaded, and then showed me, along with providing the steps they used in Star Tools, I am still botching something, as it isn't even close to what they got.

For now, I will take a break from this, and then come back with a fresh mind, and see if that helps. Caley

[astronomynut]

I got some time to fiddle with ST's and its controls. Still haven't a clue as to what I am doing, but I did get some detail to come out of my M77 and Vicinity photo. Instead of the basically white blurred circle I had with DSS processing, I actually got a smidgen of structure. I doubt this would be considered good processing, but it is a start. Oh, I cropped the heck out of this photo, as I wished to just concentrate on the main subject, though there are two other galaxies in this photo, Caley

[Rowland]

Caley.

Not to presume your skill level, but it sounds like you are getting ahead of yourself. Masks are great and it is advisable to learn how to use them. Perhaps first a step by step approach using the default settings and automatically applied masks, with a few select modules to get you started.

This is a basic workflow;

First you need, as you know, your preprocessed linear image; that is, untouched in any way other than calibration and stacking of all your subs - DSS.

Load the image
Bin it by 50% (for now to speed things up)
Dev - till its nice and bright and detailed
Wipe - defaults
Dev - again (recommended)
Color - defaults (play around here with the default mask set)

Accept the defaults for now and experiment later with star masks and inverted star masks. As mentioned if its been marked Green that area will be processed. Very useful for intensifying nebula among a star field.

I add the following to the workflow above;

HDR Reveal - after the second Dev; and then immediately after,
Life - isolate with an inverted star mask
Turn of tracking and denoise default

I hope this is helpful.

[astronomynut]

Rowland, Thanks for the basic workflow. The photo you see above was just something I needed to try. I hadn't accomplished much before, and needed something positive. I think I achieved some good results for not knowing what I am doing. The big thing was that I actually got a little structure in that tiny M77. Caley

[astronomynut]

I gave your work flow a try, and basically got nadda on my M33. I think I am going to stick with DSS and GIMP, as I am getting closer to what the image should look like with those. Nothing but garish colours seem to appear with this software. Yes, I know, I do not know how these functions work, and I think they are way beyond my ability to comprehend. They are just too complex. I have an easier time working with a histogram, saturation and luminance. I'll try coming back to this software sometime in the future, when I have a fresh outlook. Caley

[MarcoS]

Hi Caley,

StarTools can appear to be a bit complicate at the beginning, but it is actually easy to use once you get used to its way.

Here a log of a typical session, from uploading the "Virgin" DSS file to saving the results.

Try and apply them to your file.

-----------------------------------------------------------
File loaded [C:\Users\Marco\Pictures\1-Telescope\Canon\APT\Camera_1\IC1848-Soul-Nebula\Autosave.tiff].
---
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [15 %]
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [628 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [870 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [4163 pixels (-780)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [2948 pixels (-917)]
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [(scale/noise reduction 35.38%)/(798.89%)/(+3.00 bits)]
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [15 %]
--- Wipe (those are the default settings you get by clicking the vignet tab)
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [3 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
--- Develop (adjust the parameters in red until you have lots of details visible colours may be a bit strange now, you will correct them later)
Parameter [White Calibration] set to [Use Dark Anomaly Filter (May White Clip)]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [0.75]
Parameter [Skyglow] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Digital Development] set to [88.49 %]
Parameter [Blue Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Green Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Red Luminance Contrib.] set to [168 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [94 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [11.6 pixels]
--- Wavelet Sharpen
Parameter [Intelligent Enhance] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [17 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [22 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
Parameter [Amount] set to [357 %]
Parameter [Small Detail Bias] set to [99 %]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [No]
Parameter [Compensate Gamma] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [15 %]
--- HDR (those are the standard setting of the tab reveal)
Parameter [Small Detail Precision] set to [Max]
Parameter [Channels] set to [Brightness Only]
Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Reveal DSO Core]
Parameter [Dark/Bright Response] set to [Full]
Parameter [Detail Size Range] set to [64 pixels]
Parameter [Noise Suppression] set to [Off]
--- Deconvolution
Parameter [Image Type] set to [Deep Space]
Parameter [Mask Behavior] set to [De-ring Mask Gaps, Hide Result]
Parameter [Radius] set to [1.5 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [6]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [1.00 (optimal noise and detail)]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
--- Color (move the sliders untill you get the desired color)
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [To Yellow]
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Artistic, Detail Aware]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [3.40]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [3.10]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [222 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.84]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.74]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Wavelet De-Noise (adjust the setting in red to your liking)
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [98 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [98 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [2]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [8 %]
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [3.4 pixels]
Parameter [Read Noise Compensation] set to [11.79 %]
Parameter [Smoothness] set to [75 %]
--- Filter
Parameter [Filter Mode] set to [Saturate H-alpha]
Parameter [Sampling Method] set to [3x3 Average]
Parameter [Filter Width] set to [5]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
File saved [C:\Users\Marco\Pictures\1-Telescope\Canon\APT\Camera_1\IC1848-Soul-Nebula\Soul-nebula.tiff].


hopefully it will help you.

Have a nice weekend!

Marco