Hi all,
I'm new to astrophotography here. I'm just looking for some general input in regards to my data. I'm having a heck of a time getting autodev to work and get a proper image. I'm sure its completely user error and again i'm just looking for some guidance in regards to autodev and is my data really that bad?
I've attached my fit file in my google drive hopefully it works.
My camera is a qhy183C with a built in IR/cut filter
Shots are already stacked and the shots I took are as follows:
No white balance applied.
-Lights: 11@180s
-Darks: 25
-Flats: 20
-Dark Flats: 20
I can only get the proper coloring to work when I use film dev. I've been following many tutorials and just cant get seem to get it right. My autodev image keeps coming up red and green. When I filmdev I'm able to get the traditional coloring. I am thankful any input anyone can provide.
here is the link for the input file.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pgT6hS ... sp=sharing
If you need any additional info from me just let me know.
M42 Processing help
-
Mike in Rancho
- Posts: 1166
- Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 pm
- Location: Alta Loma, CA
Re: M42 Processing help
Can't access! 
I think you need to go to your folder in Drive, and in the sharing section change it to "anyone with link." That will create a public share so we can download the file.
Will for sure give it a look, though I must say 180s with just a UV-IR seems awfully intense for M42.
While waiting though, I'm kind of curious what you mean that the A/D version ends up red and green, but the F/D version doesn't. Are you using center option to open the file (since you said there's no white balancing applied), and this only happens when you reach the Color module? Did you use the Wipe module? Did you use star sampling to set the channel bias in Color?
You probably did do all those things...just asking the basics though.
I think you need to go to your folder in Drive, and in the sharing section change it to "anyone with link." That will create a public share so we can download the file.
Will for sure give it a look, though I must say 180s with just a UV-IR seems awfully intense for M42.
While waiting though, I'm kind of curious what you mean that the A/D version ends up red and green, but the F/D version doesn't. Are you using center option to open the file (since you said there's no white balancing applied), and this only happens when you reach the Color module? Did you use the Wipe module? Did you use star sampling to set the channel bias in Color?
You probably did do all those things...just asking the basics though.
Re: M42 Processing help
Hey Mike,
I thought I made it public. I'm sorry it should be good to go now.
Yes I clicked on the center button.
Step's I've done and still get the same colors.
-Autodev
-crop
-wipe
-autodev
-contrast
-sharp
-decon
-color
I have my gain dow to 5 in hopes of not blowing out the core. Like I said I'm new to this hobby so I could be doing something completely wrong. Thanks for looking.
I thought I made it public. I'm sorry it should be good to go now.
Yes I clicked on the center button.
Step's I've done and still get the same colors.
-Autodev
-crop
-wipe
-autodev
-contrast
-sharp
-decon
-color
I have my gain dow to 5 in hopes of not blowing out the core. Like I said I'm new to this hobby so I could be doing something completely wrong. Thanks for looking.
Re: M42 Processing help
Hi mbushee
Thanks for sharing your data, it looks pretty good for 33 minutes.
I had a quick go using the 'standard' work flow and put the result below. It's worth pointing out that M42 almost uniquely does have green (Teal) coloured areas and these show up quite nicely in your data.
Is this what you were getting?
Thanks for sharing your data, it looks pretty good for 33 minutes.
I had a quick go using the 'standard' work flow and put the result below. It's worth pointing out that M42 almost uniquely does have green (Teal) coloured areas and these show up quite nicely in your data.
Is this what you were getting?
-
- M42.jpg (89.34 KiB) Viewed 4374 times
Skywatcher 190MN, ASI 2600 or astro modded Canon 700d, guided by OAG, ASI120, PHD2
Re: M42 Processing help
Thanks I'm trying to be very meticulous when collecting my data. Trying to start good habits now. So not to cut corners later.
Yes I'm getting something very similar. I thought I was going crazy. Everything online with no filters shows it more of a purple red with a very feint green at the core. Only references that came back like that had NB filters.
Did you buy chance use HDR module was trying to figure if that would be worth doing
One last question did you use the 'default' settings in your second autodev or did you change some of settings regarding the fine details?
Yes I'm getting something very similar. I thought I was going crazy. Everything online with no filters shows it more of a purple red with a very feint green at the core. Only references that came back like that had NB filters.
Did you buy chance use HDR module was trying to figure if that would be worth doing
One last question did you use the 'default' settings in your second autodev or did you change some of settings regarding the fine details?
Re: M42 Processing help
Quite a lot of imagers, even very experienced ones, seem to suppress the Teal colouring even though it is there for real.
I used the 'Tame' preset on HDR. This is a very high contrast subject and it can be tricky to get the trapezium stars and the outer clouds...
The second Autodev is the one that can make or break the image, I find. For this one I used an ROI over the main nebula and adjusted the Ignore Fine Detail and Outside ROI parameters as well as Shadow linearity:
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [1.9 pixels]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [6 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [282 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [258 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [756 pixels (-605)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [722 pixels (-177)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [76 %]
I used the 'Tame' preset on HDR. This is a very high contrast subject and it can be tricky to get the trapezium stars and the outer clouds...
The second Autodev is the one that can make or break the image, I find. For this one I used an ROI over the main nebula and adjusted the Ignore Fine Detail and Outside ROI parameters as well as Shadow linearity:
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [1.9 pixels]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [6 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [282 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [258 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [756 pixels (-605)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [722 pixels (-177)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [76 %]
Skywatcher 190MN, ASI 2600 or astro modded Canon 700d, guided by OAG, ASI120, PHD2
-
Mike in Rancho
- Posts: 1166
- Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 pm
- Location: Alta Loma, CA
Re: M42 Processing help
Hi mbushee,
With the working link I took a try also. Not sure if I am one of those teal suppressors, but to me the initial color balance using star sampling still didn't sit quite right. Perhaps this is a subjective error on my part. But I also got the sense it could be due to some stars being within nebulosity, and perhaps blown star cores. Even removing the area around the Trap from the mask using Lasso didn't seem to help much. So, instead I canceled out of Color and entered again to just let ST do its own full field balancing on a full mask. From there, after checking Max RGB, I think I bumped green reduce by one notch (one mouse wheel scroll click while hovering in the middle of the slider bar). That reduced the far-flung green cast that was really almost everywhere in the image, but left some near the core.
In my AutoDev I increased IFD until the background stopped getting darker, which I think was around 5-7, and then also used a ROI, all else left default. Of course this is somewhat dependent on the Wipe settings chosen also. I then used the ensuing Contrast module for squeezing the dynamic range in the shadows, rather than A/D.
At the end I did a little cosmetic work (repair?) in Layer by giving a little blur and fuzz to the Trap and many star cores, since they were all burning at about a million candlepower. What were the telescope details? I'm wondering if you might get a more improved Trapezium and overall image by getting the same integration using half the subexposure times. Or even less.
Still, for about 30 minutes it's a rather nice Orion, especially for a new AP'er.
With the working link I took a try also. Not sure if I am one of those teal suppressors, but to me the initial color balance using star sampling still didn't sit quite right. Perhaps this is a subjective error on my part. But I also got the sense it could be due to some stars being within nebulosity, and perhaps blown star cores. Even removing the area around the Trap from the mask using Lasso didn't seem to help much. So, instead I canceled out of Color and entered again to just let ST do its own full field balancing on a full mask. From there, after checking Max RGB, I think I bumped green reduce by one notch (one mouse wheel scroll click while hovering in the middle of the slider bar). That reduced the far-flung green cast that was really almost everywhere in the image, but left some near the core.
In my AutoDev I increased IFD until the background stopped getting darker, which I think was around 5-7, and then also used a ROI, all else left default. Of course this is somewhat dependent on the Wipe settings chosen also. I then used the ensuing Contrast module for squeezing the dynamic range in the shadows, rather than A/D.
At the end I did a little cosmetic work (repair?) in Layer by giving a little blur and fuzz to the Trap and many star cores, since they were all burning at about a million candlepower. What were the telescope details? I'm wondering if you might get a more improved Trapezium and overall image by getting the same integration using half the subexposure times. Or even less.
Still, for about 30 minutes it's a rather nice Orion, especially for a new AP'er.
-
- mbushee M42 ST8 1A 1280.jpg (425.3 KiB) Viewed 4351 times
Re: M42 Processing help
Almcl I will start off by saying thanks I was going to ask for that info based on how you responded.
I'll just start off by saying I'm newb in general to post processing. I'm an engineer so getting the data made sense to me for the most part. I've read through the startools manual and descriptions of the various terms for each module. I really struggle from just reading things and work better hands on.
My question is do either of you have some general recommendations for how and when to edit the various settings in the autodev for the fine details and some of the other settings. I just don't know when to apply or how much just looking for maybe a general rule of thumb. Once I get a better grasp of this I think things will be fine. For the first autodev after crop I've just been leaving this as default for the wipe should I be changing these settings as well or is better to just leave this first one as is?
Mike your photo looks great. Yeah I realized I maybe have to much exposure, but it was my second target ever and it was only 15 outside and I have a small window to get the shot before I lose the view. I was using the same settings from my first shot a few days before of M81 and M82 I have 4 hours of exposure on that. I need to figure out layering for that I think I have 180 and 300 exposures. I'll probably have to make another post for that haha.
My goal is to get post processing results that are remotely close to what you two got.
Here is my equipment and info for this shot:
Mount: ioptron GEM28
Telescope: wo gt-81,6AIII field flattener, custom dew shield with fan.
Camera: qhy183c cooled (-15C I think) built in UV/IR cut
Settings: gain 5, offset 25
Guiding: 50mm wo guide scope with asi120mm mini
Software: NINA,PHD2,DSS,Startools
Location: North Western Wisconsin in my driveway Bortle 5/6
Date: 3/10/22
Edit:
I did attempt this again even with the ROI you suggested almcl and I end up with a noisy/very grainy background. And when I run through the modules and get to the color section the color also comes in very grainy. Am I missing something or am I just screwing this up. I tried changing the ROI to decrease eliminate this and I lose a ton of detail
I'll just start off by saying I'm newb in general to post processing. I'm an engineer so getting the data made sense to me for the most part. I've read through the startools manual and descriptions of the various terms for each module. I really struggle from just reading things and work better hands on.
My question is do either of you have some general recommendations for how and when to edit the various settings in the autodev for the fine details and some of the other settings. I just don't know when to apply or how much just looking for maybe a general rule of thumb. Once I get a better grasp of this I think things will be fine. For the first autodev after crop I've just been leaving this as default for the wipe should I be changing these settings as well or is better to just leave this first one as is?
Mike your photo looks great. Yeah I realized I maybe have to much exposure, but it was my second target ever and it was only 15 outside and I have a small window to get the shot before I lose the view. I was using the same settings from my first shot a few days before of M81 and M82 I have 4 hours of exposure on that. I need to figure out layering for that I think I have 180 and 300 exposures. I'll probably have to make another post for that haha.
My goal is to get post processing results that are remotely close to what you two got.
Here is my equipment and info for this shot:
Mount: ioptron GEM28
Telescope: wo gt-81,6AIII field flattener, custom dew shield with fan.
Camera: qhy183c cooled (-15C I think) built in UV/IR cut
Settings: gain 5, offset 25
Guiding: 50mm wo guide scope with asi120mm mini
Software: NINA,PHD2,DSS,Startools
Location: North Western Wisconsin in my driveway Bortle 5/6
Date: 3/10/22
Edit:
I did attempt this again even with the ROI you suggested almcl and I end up with a noisy/very grainy background. And when I run through the modules and get to the color section the color also comes in very grainy. Am I missing something or am I just screwing this up. I tried changing the ROI to decrease eliminate this and I lose a ton of detail
Re: M42 Processing help
As I try to work through this. Did either of you by chance use the binning module? I'm just trying to figure out why I end up with so much noise when I autodev the second time to get the same amount of details that you two are getting.
-
Mike in Rancho
- Posts: 1166
- Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 pm
- Location: Alta Loma, CA
Re: M42 Processing help
Sorry I didn't get back to you quicker!
That WO GT is a very good scope I think, triplet right? Curious that it seemed there was a lot of blue halo. But again, if I remember right possible quite a bit of overexposure here. Unsure on your M81/M82, those seem potentially long also. Could depend on your skies.
But unlikely you would/should need to layer those. Really with ST, it's debatable if even M42 actually needs to be combined in an "old school" HDR, at least unless you can truly combine it up to something like 64 bit depth.
Here's the log I used, but all the mask codes removed for clarity and size. That can make it a bit confusing as to what masking was done with what, but you can get the basics out of this I think. I did bin. Usually helps, either based on just looking at the noise or knowing the imaging scale that was captured.
Have to run to the store now and see if I can still pick up some last minute corned beef/cabbage.
That WO GT is a very good scope I think, triplet right? Curious that it seemed there was a lot of blue halo. But again, if I remember right possible quite a bit of overexposure here. Unsure on your M81/M82, those seem potentially long also. Could depend on your skies.
But unlikely you would/should need to layer those. Really with ST, it's debatable if even M42 actually needs to be combined in an "old school" HDR, at least unless you can truly combine it up to something like 64 bit depth.
Here's the log I used, but all the mask codes removed for clarity and size. That can make it a bit confusing as to what masking was done with what, but you can get the basics out of this I think. I did bin. Usually helps, either based on just looking at the noise or knowing the imaging scale that was captured.
Have to run to the store now and see if I can still pick up some last minute corned beef/cabbage.
Code: Select all
-----------------------------------------------------------
StarTools 1.8.527MR2
Wed Mar 16 08:26:13 2022
-----------------------------------------------------------
File loaded [E:\ASTRO\2-ST FOLDER\mbushee\M42.fits].
Image size is 5521 x 3660
---
Type of Data: Linear and was Bayered, but not whitebalanced
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [5521 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [3660 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Rotate
Parameter [Angle] set to [180.0]
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [5 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [5 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [5516 pixels (-5)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [3655 pixels (-5)]
Image size is 5511 x 3650
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [scale 36.30% / +2.92 bits / +1.75x SNR improvement]
Image size is 2000 x 1324
--- Wipe
Parameter [Synthetic Dark/Bias] set to [Off]
Parameter [Gradient Edge Behavior] set to [Absorb 50%]
Parameter [Synthetic Flats] set to [Off]
Parameter [Sampling Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [3 pixels]
Parameter [Gradient Falloff] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Synth. Bias Edge Area] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Gradient Aggressiveness] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Correlation Filtering] set to [0.5 pixels]
Redoing stretch of linear data
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [7.0 pixels]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [626 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [128 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [1613 pixels (-387)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [1116 pixels (-208)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Off]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Shadow Detail Size] set to [10 pixels]
Parameter [Locality] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Shadow Dyn Range Alloc] set to [35 %]
--- HDR
Parameter [Signal Flow] set to [Tracked]
Parameter [Quality] set to [Medium]
Parameter [Gamma Shadow (Lift)] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Gamma Highlight (Tame)] set to [2.52]
Parameter [Gamma Smoothen] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Context Size] set to [35x35 pixels (1.75% image W, 2.64% image H)]
Parameter [Shadows Detail Boost] set to [30 %]
Parameter [Highlights Detail Boost] set to [30 %]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)
PSF samples used (11 PSF sample locations, BASE64 encoded)
VFMAAAsA0AcsBXEECQRRAdsEDgDqAxgH+wORAgECWQW7AXIHEQKxB50AYQaWAFgCJgHUAlEA
--- Spatially Variant PSF Deconvolution
Parameter [PSF Resampling] set to [Intra-Iteration + Centroid Tracking Linear]
Parameter [Synthetic PSF Model] set to [Circle of Confusion (Optics Only)]
Parameter [Sampled PSF Area] set to [15x15]
Parameter [Synthetic PSF Radius] set to [1.5 pixels]
Parameter [Synthetic Iterations] set to [Off]
Parameter [Spatial Error] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Deringing Fuzz] set to [30.0 pixels]
Parameter [Deringing Detect] set to [85 %]
Parameter [Dyn. Range Extension] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Linearity Cutoff] set to [85 %]
Parameter [Sampled Iterations] set to [10x]
Parameter [Deringing Amount] set to [0.90]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)
--- Color
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Matrix] set to [Identity (OFF)]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [5.5]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [6.0]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [175 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.34]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.09]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Highlight Repair] set to [5 pixels]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)
--- Shrink
Parameter [Mode] set to [Tighten]
Parameter [Halo Extend] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [0]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [0.85]
Parameter [Color Taming] set to [2 pixels]
Parameter [De-ringing] set to [2.0 pixels]
Parameter [Un-glow Strength] set to [Off]
Parameter [Un-glow Kernel] set to [Off]
--- Super Structure
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask Darken]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Multiply, Gamma Correct]
Parameter [Brightness, Color] set to [Process Both]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Local Median]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [45 %]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [0.75]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [100 %]
--- Unified De-Noise
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [7.0 pixels]
Parameter [Walking Noise Size] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Walking Noise Angle] set to [0]
--- Unified De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [99 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Equalized Grain] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Grain Dispersion] set to [7.0 pixels]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)
--- Layer
Parameter [Layer Mode] set to [Blend]
Parameter [Cap Mode] set to [Clip]
Parameter [Brightness Mask Mode] set to [Off]
Parameter [Filter Type] set to [Gaussian Low-pass(Fg)]
Parameter [Blend Amount] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [2.0 pixels]
Parameter [Filter Kernel Radius] set to [2.4 pixels]
Parameter [Offset X] set to [0.0 pixels]
Parameter [Offset Y] set to [0.0 pixels]
Parameter [Brightness Mask Power] set to [1.0]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)
File saved [E:\ASTRO\2-ST FOLDER\mbushee\mbushee M42 ST8 1A.tiff].