Crazy idea or not HOO approaches Soul neb

[fmeireso]

Result2 (Large).jpg (316.86 KiB) Viewed 6305 times

Lately i took shots from the Soul nebulae. I took a probably uncommon approach.

I took about just over 3 hours shots with an monochrome DSLR and a Ha filter.
And over 3 hours over OSC unmodded DSLR but with L-enhance filter

I processed using the compose module in HOO, splitting the OSC in Red and Green/blue channel and use the Ha stack asl Luminance

What came out , i find it quite satisfying, never had so much detail sofar in this kind of objects.

But is this a descent way of working? Or a less good approach and if so why. I did not get much reply in CN for that matter.
Does this approach makes sense? From what i see, it does, but ...well i am far from an expert...

I have to say, this method makes in possible in only needing about 2 sessions to get at least some data to work with. I understand you could eventually take Ha and OIII seperate with filters with the mono cam and then perhaps an OSC to get some color.

@Ivo , youre comments would be appreciated

[fmeireso]

Same but in kind of fake hubble pallet look

Result3 (Large).jpg (317.62 KiB) Viewed 6304 times

[Mike in Rancho]

Interesting, Freddy!

I'm used to seeing this just as a big blob of red, but I don't get out much...

Kind of too bad the L-eNhance is held back by the unmodded camera, though maybe that might hold back some of the Ha from overwhelming everything else?

Is it bicolor? HOO and then maybe H(H+O)O on the next? It almost seems to me there's a brown color in there as well.

Lots of ways to go about this and combine things, I would imagine. Might make for good practice data.

[admin]

I think you're on to winner!

To me that sounds like a fantastic way of getting deep detail from Ha ("monochrome" DLSR means the Bayer Matrix was removed, correct?).

You are then adding the coloring of the L-Enhance, which shows you where H-Beta/O-III exists alongside Ha.

Of course this method cannot show H-Beta/O-III by itself - brightness (and thus visibility) of H-Beta/O-III signal is 100% dependent on Ha existing there as well.

I'm not sure what to call such a composite ("augmented Ha"?) but it 's a very interesting combo nonetheless. It gives you a lot of benefits of Ha (such as tight stars and strong signal/detail) with some very interesting additional information ("This Ha area also has H-Beta/O-III emissions").

Pretty cool!

[fmeireso]

Interesting, Freddy!

I'm used to seeing this just as a big blob of red, but I don't get out much...

Kind of too bad the L-eNhance is held back by the unmodded camera, though maybe that might hold back some of the Ha from overwhelming everything else?

Is it bicolor? HOO and then maybe H(H+O)O on the next? It almost seems to me there's a brown color in there as well.

Lots of ways to go about this and combine things, I would imagine. Might make for good practice data.

Yes i processed it as HOO,
So Ha stack used as Luminance, and OSC L-enhance stack splitted in a Red channel and a Blue/green channel like Ivo teached me(us) in the 'Nothing to do , what do to some processing" thread on CN from the Elf
With the L-enhance this seems to work always better, also on a single OSC stack,and i kinda like the colors anyway

[fmeireso]

I think you're on to winner!

To me that sounds like a fantastic way of getting deep detail from Ha ("monochrome" DLSR means the Bayer Matrix was removed, correct?).

You are then adding the coloring of the L-Enhance, which shows you where H-Beta/O-III exists alongside Ha.

Of course this method cannot show H-Beta/O-III by itself - brightness (and thus visibility) of H-Beta/O-III signal is 100% dependent on Ha existing there as well.

I'm not sure what to call such a composite ("augmented Ha"?) but it 's a very interesting combo nonetheless. It gives you a lot of benefits of Ha (such as tight stars and strong signal/detail) with some very interesting additional information ("This Ha area also has H-Beta/O-III emissions").

Pretty cool!

Yes , Ha was taken from a DSLR Canon 600D from which the bayer matrix indeed was removed and with a Ha 7nm clip in filter in place

[Mike in Rancho]

Hmmm. Not super duper following Ivo's explanation here (need to have a yellow pad nearby so I can make charts with arrows and stuff ).

Maybe it's in the Elf thread referenced. Freddy are you compositing as L, RGB? Not one of the choices with a synthetic L (including the bicolor options)?

That would make sense of the description then. However, G and B are not turned into GB unless you did that separately beforehand, which could also later affect things in the color module, even if you were able to change it to the HOO matrix. Would almost require being careful to manually balance the G and B to ensure the bicolor.

[fmeireso]

Hmmm. Not super duper following Ivo's explanation here (need to have a yellow pad nearby so I can make charts with arrows and stuff ).

Maybe it's in the Elf thread referenced. Freddy are you compositing as L, RGB? Not one of the choices with a synthetic L (including the bicolor options)?

That would make sense of the description then. However, G and B are not turned into GB unless you did that separately beforehand, which could also later affect things in the color module, even if you were able to change it to the HOO matrix. Would almost require being careful to manually balance the G and B to ensure the bicolor.

Mike,
this is how i started after off course have created the red and green/blue tiff files needed for HOO, but you need to create first the files needed for the HOO approach

So for red use compose load osc in red, and save as tiff file
then
in compose again load osc in green and blue and sae as tiff file


-----------------------------------------------------------
StarTools 1.7.461
Thu Oct 14 18:42:16 2021
-----------------------------------------------------------
Loading luminance channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\WorkFolder\SoulStacks\Dubbelderp\Ha_Soul-reg.fits].
Loading red channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\WorkFolder\SoulStacks\Dubbelderp\HOO\Ha_Red_Channel.tiff].
Loading green channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\WorkFolder\SoulStacks\Dubbelderp\HOO\OIII_BG_Channel.tiff].
Loading blue channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\WorkFolder\SoulStacks\Dubbelderp\HOO\OIII_BG_Channel.tiff].
--- Compose
Parameter [Luminance, Color] set to [L + Synthetic L From RGB, RGB] (still unsure about this setting)
Parameter [Color Ch. Interpolation] set to [On]
Parameter [Lum Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Parameter [Blue Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Parameter [Green Total Exposure] set to [0h01m (1m) (60s)]
Parameter [Red Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Image size is 5478 x 3892
Type of Data: Linear, was not Bayered, or was Bayered + white balanced

But in the color module you should i think you have to do this

"Be sure to set 'LRGB Method Emulation' in the Color module to 'RGB Ratio, CIELab Luminance Retention', because 'Straight CIELab Luminance Retention' will not yield much color due to the luminance and chrominane spectra being completely different."

I might have even forgotten this...

I did have to use 2x saturate in the Superstructure module.
Then a red/pinkish and cyan OIII nebuluae should come out.

As Cyan is not very pleasing i was able to turn this in GIMP to a more 'appropite' nicer blue...;(This i could not do at the time with my Rosette for some reason)

Hope this helps

[Mike in Rancho]

Thanks Freddy!

Your files are in a dubblederp folder?

Anyway, I did see this on CN and downloaded the stacks last night. You could link them here too? I figure posting here might get a better ST relevant discussion, though I could post there too?

The PI version done over there does look very pretty. For one he managed to smooth the broken stuff out quite well. But he also mentioned something about using masking to boost the OIII. That's sounding selective to me, though rather common with the PI crowd I think. Still, if pretty is the goal...

I composited this a number of ways, though I never actually "split" the channels separately. Figured why not just let ST do that. So I ran one with your Ha as L, and the OSC loaded as bicolor from DSLR. Then I just used Ha alone as the R channel, the OSC as B and G, and again selected bicolor from DSLR. I also tried your OSC by itself as bicolor, the Ha by itself as mono (not sure though how one is supposed to load or composite to do a mono grayscale in ST), then a H(H+O)O to show the gold and blue, and finally using NBAccent. Phew!

With all of them, I was having trouble with noise and pattern issues, and I'm not sure you are getting the quality you are expecting from the new mono DSLR? Is the integration short? The data seems very choppy, and in fact almost looks like it has a hatched pattern imprinted into it.

Not really sure how to handle that. Correlation filter can help. Binning would probably help, but the crop here pretty much rules that out unless you want all the stars to turn into squares. Ramping up SS, or changing the denoise can help also...but a lot of the trouble is still there.

Anyway this version is the HOO done with the Ha alone as the R. I figured since your OSC file is a L-eNhance but with an unmodded camera, probably not much extra info there in the R channel. LRGB was of course bicolor from DSLR.

I wonder if blending the R's will help smooth out some of the hatching pattern from the mono Ha file (since the other R will have been bayer interpolated)? Probably won't help much in the other colors though.

Anyway, then just routine ST processing, and color as bicolor matrix rebalanced to get the result shown. If your compositing did not create a single GB file for both B and G and then select a bicolor matrix, that could explain why you seem to have more than two hues. Also not sure what is going on with the massive synth L over-weighting of the G. ????

Still, cool stuff and definitely could be on track to make something neat out of this after a few matters are cleaned up!

Freddy Ha as R w HOO ST8 2B.jpg (474.54 KiB) Viewed 6160 times

[fmeireso]

Yeah,

They are in a 'Dubbelderp' folder cause he aligned them and not to get confused again with my stacks i called it the folder as such

Great processing Mike!

Noise in an issue in a mono DSLR Ha stack, i putted about 30 darks in but it still is an issue i think. Definately something to work on in the future.
This is my first try with this, but all things considered i really like the result....jus because the mono Ha adds quit some nebulosity to the picture...
I see that The elf mono Ha stacks are much cleaner but i have no idea how he does it, he is a PI user and that is a whole other story

Stacks

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol8cz6ivi4j6q ... .fits?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/twvks5m816ww8 ... .fits?dl=0