IC 434

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decay
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Re: IC 434

Post by decay »

fmeireso wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 8:37 am So in any case, if i understood well, it should be better to take color with an modded cam?
I guess, yes - at least for emission nebula if you want to combine RGB with NB data.
fmeireso wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 8:37 am i like the LRGB approach is the fact that you only need 2 sessions ... due to the fact that clear nights are rare
Oh yes, I know, what you are talking about, Freddy. But of course, your approach using your mono DSLR and the other RGB DSLR is quite fine, I think. My first thought would be to modify the RGB cam and to remove the stock low pass filter. Or to buy another used modified DSLR for this? :think:

Best regards, Dietmar.
fmeireso
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Location: Belgium

Re: IC 434

Post by fmeireso »

Dietmar,

So something like this could be worhtwhile then...

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... ilter.html
decay
Posts: 493
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Location: Germany, NRW

Re: IC 434

Post by decay »

Hi Freddy, I think, that's too expensive to be somehow economic?! I've been thinking about second hand.
I will later respond in detail, to avoid any misunderstanding.

Until then, Dietmar.
Mike in Rancho
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Re: IC 434

Post by Mike in Rancho »

Wow Freddy, I don't know how that 400D compares to what you are using now (fully identical? yours is a 60 or 600, no?), but it sure seems like a lot of Euros for an Ha mod DSLR.

When I was doing more DSLR, I just bought a used/refurb D5300 in decent condition (think it came from Japan off eBay) and removed the stock filter myself to make it full spectrum. That was in the neighborhood of $400, plus a little more for a small electronics repair kit (think laptop repair, lots of tiny screwdriver bits and edge pry tools, etc.) from Amazon.

Mono, like from mono astrocams, isn't necessarily more time-consuming, for equivalent results. The sensor response is usually greater, so often 20 minutes each of R, G, and B can be better SNR than 1 hour of OSC. But it certainly won't be worse.

The files should also be similar, based on resolution and bit depth, of a grayscale mono and undebayered OSC.

But while you will get more red response, especially where Ha resides, I don't know if it solves your underlying philosophical/theoretical problems as described and discussed in a number of threads. :confusion-shrug:

I think it boils down to figuring out just what do you want to create/show, how, and why. I think we've said it before, maybe here or the Heart Nebula threads or both, but any combining of wide and narrowband has potential pitfalls, depending on how it's done. And Ivo I think explained it even better in the other current thread. Is there a good logical explanation for the NB+WB combination? For example a NB image but with RGB stars is a bit of a mash-up but you can reasonably explain what you have done, and both the NB and RGB portions of the combo remain legitimate in and of themselves.

Using Ha as the L for RGB is a mismatch, and so for any given target it may "work" (meaning you get a pretty picture you like) or it may flop. Blending the Ha into the R channel may be slightly more legitimate than that, especially if you can get an appropriate blend percentage, but is still an artistic augmentation of the red channel. The most appropriate, if one cares, is likely separate processing of BB and NB followed by a layer blending. Still very much an imager's choice result, perhaps still "artistic" depending on where you draw the line, but can be rationally explained to both yourself and the audience. The NB Accent module streamlines this exact thing for us.

If you want to keep with DSLR for now, you might look for a used, already Ha-modded, Canon of the exact same model as your mono-mod Canon, for ease of combining mono and OSC. I would consider getting an L or UV-IR cut filter to acquire true L with the mono for your BB. But I would probably really think about a filter wheel and full set of LRGBSHO (does not need to be expensive Chromas), since you already have a mono cam that you seem to like. Just get things in sizes that could be used with a future astro mono cam, if you ever do that.

Or, since you really like nebulas, just get SHO filters and do SHO plus RGB stars, the RGB stars being acquired with the stock DSLR.

:think:
decay
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:28 pm
Location: Germany, NRW

Re: IC 434

Post by decay »

Hi Freddy,

just to recap: what I meant and what Mike wrote is that in your RBG data an important and significant part is weak or missing: the Ha red emission line is a victim of the camera build in low pass filter. This could be the cause for the unexpected results you encounter when you try to combine your two datasets.

OK - it just happened again. While typing this the notification email of Mike's reply came in. :lol: :doh: From now on I will always wait two days to see if Mike replies :confusion-shrug:

As he now already said the most of want I wanted to say (and a lot more ;) ) I will only give this on top:

- You could try to ask someone on CN or on the Dutch speaking forum you mentioned to process your datasets with PI and/or the methods you have in mind. If there the same issues with colouring and unexpected results arise, this could be a strong hint that the 'problem' is indeed within your dataset. Otherwise - well - it must be different due to different processing methods.

I hope all this helps somehow :confusion-shrug: Let us know how you go on.

Best regards, Dietmar.
fmeireso
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:46 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: IC 434

Post by fmeireso »

The Canon on the website of TS is a Canon 850D. It is the newest model in the in the xxx series. New price unmodded of course is around 700 to 900 euro. depending on the dealer So modded it costs a couple hundreds euro more.

I have now the former model the Canon 800D, knows as the T7i in the States which i use now as OSC.

But indeed the modded 850D comes at a price. A second hand using should be less expensive, still i am reluctant cause it is still unsure what the outcome would be. Of course it could be used directly, since it is modded.

Another possiblity is a mod for my 800D. TS offers that service too.

No, guess for now , i will experiment a bit further before i jump onto something else.
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