M33 The Rematch

[dhellis59]

Hi All,

About 11 months ago I posted a similar topic requesting help processing this same object, M33. Those fellow members that assisted me, Che and Ken among others, should be happy to know that I made some significant progress (to my own eyes anyway) with their help. But I am nowhere near out of the woods yet!

So here I am again requesting assistance with M33. This is my best image:

M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016 2nd Pass RS Cropped.jpg (252.75 KiB) Viewed 6950 times

And for those of you who wish to agonize over processing my data, here it is: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvMvsxCOFVCflFs-ZPbSo3gS7pxs

I must forewarn you though, I image with a Canon 450d using Astrophotography Tool from my driveway in a red zone. My imaging scope is an 80mm ED achro refractor, but it is on a relatively solid CGEM DX. The data consists of 58 5 min subs with 24 darks, 24 flats, 24 dark flats & only 4 Bias frames (something went wrong here) stacked in DSS. I guided through a 50mm guide scope using a Mallincam AGc and PHD2. The mount and having a little more experience with my equipment, capturing, guiding and polar aligning are probably the most significant changes from last year.

Star Tools, and it's author, Ivo have been absolutely fantastic with helping me clear the fog I find myself in with post processing. From my image you can see I have a lot to learn. What I struggled with most is finding the proper way to bring the target out from the background of light pollution and other noise (I guess). In the posted image, I could only get a darker background once I saved, reloaded, and restretched the image. I'm sure in the process of doing that I did some faux pas that I should not have, but I found the result better than my previous results. Also, in one of my processing steps, I messed up the stars somewhat smearing them.

Thanks in advance for any input or advice given.

Yours truly,

Darryl

[dhellis59]

Here goes my workflow log also if anyone is interested and can tell me where I went wrong or could have done things better:


-----------------------------------------------------------
StarTools 1.4.316
Mon Oct 31 17:11:20 2016
-----------------------------------------------------------
File loaded [C:\Users\Paula\Pictures\Astronomy\Astrophotography\Camera_1\Lights\M33\M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016.fts].
---
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [(scale/noise reduction 50.00%)/(400.00%)/(+2.00 bits)]
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [168 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [226 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [1990 pixels (-155)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [1237 pixels (-191)]
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color Only]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [0 %]
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [15 %]
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [5.0 pixels]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [20 %]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [No]
Parameter [Compensate Gamma] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [15 %]
--- HDR
Parameter [Small Detail Precision] set to [Max]
Parameter [Channels] set to [Brightness Only]
Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Reveal DSO Core]
Parameter [Dark/Bright Response] set to [Full]
Parameter [Detail Size Range] set to [64 pixels]
Parameter [Strength] set to [1.0]
--- Wavelet Sharpen
Parameter [Intelligent Enhance] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
Parameter [Amount] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Small Detail Bias] set to [75 %]
--- Deconvolution
Parameter [Image Type] set to [Deep Space]
Parameter [Mask Behavior] set to [De-ring Mask Gaps, Hide Result]
Parameter [Radius] set to [1.5 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [6]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [1.00 (optimal noise and detail)]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
--- Life
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Min Distance to 1/2 Unity]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Power of Inverse]
Parameter [Inherit Brightness, Color] set to [Off]
Parameter [Output Glow Only] set to [No]
Parameter [Airy Disk Sampling] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [8 pixels]
Parameter [Glow Threshold] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.2 pixels]
--- Life
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Multiply, Gamma Correct]
Parameter [Inherit Brightness, Color] set to [Off]
Parameter [Output Glow Only] set to [No]
Parameter [Airy Disk Sampling] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [8 pixels]
Parameter [Glow Threshold] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Fractal Flux
Parameter [Brightness Mask Mode] set to [Off]
Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Add Detail]
Parameter [Negative Flux] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Positive Flux] set to [25 %]
Parameter [Detail Filter] set to [2.5 pixels]
Parameter [Filter Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Filter Radius] set to [1.5 pixels]
Parameter [Filter Amount] set to [200 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Brightness Mask Power] set to [1.00]
--- Color
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [No]
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [2.00]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [Full]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [200 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.12]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.40]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [6]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [1.5 pixels]
Parameter [Read Noise Compensation] set to [Off]
Parameter [Smoothness] set to [75 %]
--- Repair
Parameter [Radial Samples] set to [32]
Parameter [Sub Sampling] set to [4x]
Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Redistribute, Core Is Brightest Pixel]
Parameter [Grow Mask] set to [0 pixels]
---
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Hybrid, Keep Stars]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [100 %]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [0 %]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [70 Arc Minutes (61' x 33')]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [0]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [67 %]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [1.00]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [0 %]
File saved [C:\Users\Paula\Pictures\Astronomy\Astrophotography\Camera_1\Lights\M33\M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016 2nd Pass.jpg].
File loaded [C:\Users\Paula\Pictures\Astronomy\Astrophotography\Camera_1\Lights\M33\M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016 2nd Pass.jpg].
---
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [15 %]
Undo.
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [15 %]
File saved [C:\Users\Paula\Pictures\Astronomy\Astrophotography\Camera_1\Lights\M33\M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016 2nd Pass RS.jpg].
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [187 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [181 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [1682 pixels (-140)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [839 pixels (-172)]
Undo.
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [127 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [101 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [1745 pixels (-77)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [901 pixels (-110)]
File saved [C:\Users\Paula\Pictures\Astronomy\Astrophotography\Camera_1\Lights\M33\M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016 2nd Pass RS Cropped.jpg].

Sorry for the extraordinarily long post . I have not figured out how to post a text file to the forum.

[Cheman]

Hi Daryll
Looks like you have made some progress
Here is my working of your image and my workflow.
I tweeked the wipe parameters to try to even out the wipe.
I also used decon, but think I could have left that out in this instance.
All in all the data was pretty good and I didnt use very many steps to get this result.
Che

M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016.jpg (454.46 KiB) Viewed 6941 times

File loaded [C:\Users\Che\Downloads\M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016.fts].
---
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [(scale/noise reduction 70.71%)/(200.00%)/(+1.00 bits)]
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [370 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [196 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [2786 pixels (-247)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [1786 pixels (-233)]
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [5 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [111 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [80 %]
--- Develop
Parameter [White Calibration] set to [Use Stars]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Skyglow] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Digital Development] set to [92.93 %]
Parameter [Blue Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Green Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Red Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [5 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [Off]
--- Deconvolution
Parameter [Image Type] set to [Deep Space]
Parameter [Mask Behavior] set to [De-ring Mask Gaps, Hide Result]
Parameter [Radius] set to [2.5 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [6]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [1.00 (optimal noise and detail)]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
--- HDR
Parameter [Small Detail Precision] set to [Max]
Parameter [Channels] set to [Brightness Only]
Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Reveal DSO Core]
Parameter [Dark/Bright Response] set to [Full]
Parameter [Detail Size Range] set to [64 pixels]
Parameter [Noise Suppression] set to [1.2]
--- Life
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Multiply, Gamma Correct]
Parameter [Inherit Brightness, Color] set to [Off]
Parameter [Output Glow Only] set to [No]
Parameter [Airy Disk Sampling] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [8 pixels]
Parameter [Glow Threshold] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Color
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [To Yellow]
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [2.00]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [Full]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [257 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.01]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.28]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [6]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [4.5 pixels]
Parameter [Read Noise Compensation] set to [Off]
Parameter [Smoothness] set to [75 %]
--- Magic
Parameter [Mode] set to [Shrink]
Parameter [Mask Grow] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [2 pixels]
File saved [C:\Users\Che\Downloads\M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016.jpg].

[dhellis59]

Thanks Che. I am pleased that you took the time to work on this. As always, you demonstrate how to use ST to bring out an image properly. Your version of my image is the way it should look. Mine was brighter, but seemed like it was over processed.

Honestly, a lot of the steps I used were me trying different things to preserve the image while getting rid of the background. I see you used Develop vs. Auto Develop. The latter seems to make the image brighter but it also makes the background brighter in some instances.

The stars are much, much better in your image as well.

I am going to redo my processing again using your workflow to see if I can repeat it, or at least improve upon my image.

Thanks again ,

Darryl

[dhellis59]

Here are two earlier versions that I came up with:

M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016 2nd Pass.jpg (410.23 KiB) Viewed 6933 times

M33 58 L 24 D 24 F 24 DF 4 B 103016 1st Pass.jpg (377.4 KiB) Viewed 6933 times

What is the fuzziness surrounding the image in the background called? I called it noise.

More importantly, how do I properly get rid of it ?

In my first image in my original post, I actually saved, reloaded, and restretched the image to get rid of it. Che, it appears that you were able to get rid of it in your initial workflow. In the past I was able to minimize it by using Develop vs. Auto Develop. However, I believe I get a brighter, more detailed image using Auto Develop. Only the latter also brings up all the noise as well even using an ROI.

Thanks,

Darryl

[Cheman]

If you are referring to the general mottling in the background, i think that I would call it noise also. Two things I did
1. After cropping and binning, I adjusted wipe parameters to try to even out the background. I had the best results using the vignette option and adjusted the corner agressiveness and agressiveness sliders. I also increased the dark anomaly filter. I think this resulted in a more even background.

2. Then, and this is where I got rid of the background "noise", I used the Life-isolate feature. I used this with no mask. Sometimes I use a mask but it can lead to too severe of a transition from the background to the object even if I increase the "fuzzy- ness" parameter(I think thats what its called) and the strength slider.
Then after color and switching of tracking and denoise, I went into the magic module, applied a star mask and shrank the stars a bit to help the galaxy stand out more.
The thing about this program is there is sooo much you can do, even with the limited understanding I have about all the modules. Once you get the feel of what a basic workflow can do, then more pieces start to fit together. I still have lots to learn but have never been able to to get the results I get in StarTools in any other program. I really like the way Ivo has presented his solutions, they make more sense to the way my mind works
Che

[dhellis59]

Thanks Che.

That is an extremely useful explanation of how to get rid of the noise. It is exactly what I was after. We must think alike!

I was in the right ball park as I was trying to use the Life Isolate feature as well. I too found that it went too far with the Mask, but worked better without it.

I agree regarding Star Tools and what Ivo has done. I am still relatively new to the whole process of Astro Imaging and Post Processing. I barely understood the former and was completely clueless about the latter. Star Tools has basically made an impossible learning curve possible for me.

In addition to trial and error, (my most often used learning methodology these days, lol), I am starting to use the ? buttons to figure out what each module and parameter is actually doing. Most of it goes over my head, but some of it falls in.

Darryl