Something close to levels and curves ?

[fmazzanti]

Hi folks,

I just discovered this nice piece of software and am trying to get something done with it. I find it very interesting as it seems to be rather simple to use as compared to other (PI for exemple). Well I'm sure I will challenge you by showing that no matter how idiot-proof the software is, there's always somebody (me) who's below the bottom line I hope you can help me to get me something done.
I must say this is my first contact with this prog. I have been watching your nice video tutorials but somehow can't get things done with my own data.
I say all this because I have some fits data acquired from my pretty light polluted enviroment (almost urba skis) which is m65, a stack of a couple of hours in 10min subexposures, taken with my SXV-H9 Starlight Xpress camera on a TEC140 ridding on a Paramount MX. The data looks more or less promissing under AstroArt, but I want to process it with StarTolls and see what comes out. I would like to attach the stacked .fit file for somebody who wants to take a look at it, but the server seems to deny upload as it exceed the 512kb limit .
The fact is that I open it and follow the inital steps of for instance the M8 tutorial. The problem I find is that stretching seems to replace the galaxy with something pretty white, while the background is showing all sort of noise patterns. It's kind of a non-linear stretch that shows me exactly the opposite of what i want: the galaxy is burned out and the background shows all the noise: I want it the oterh way around!
I try the wipe tools and get something slightly better, but definitely not ready to work. I attach a screenshot of what I get, and you'll see why I say what I say.
I miss something like 'levels and curves' to get the dynamic range of the image at the right spot, as I don't know how to do that in StarTools, so I essentially can't figure out how to proceed from there.
Since I'm 100% sure I do things wrong, I would appreciate it very much if somebody more experienced could take a look at the file and drive me in the right direction to get is stretched to the right point where other things can be done, I'm quite lost at this point... I would love to have somebody telling me what are the initial steps i must carry out with that data... Or detect if it is unusable and point me to the things I must rectify in order to get something decemt

Thanks a lot for your kind help,

Ferran.

[Cheman]

Hi Ferran
Welcome to StarTools. Once you get the feel for it, its a wonderful program
Can you put the file into dropbox maybe and share the link. I'd take a look at it, and I'm sure others would too. I know Ivo will.
Che

[admin]

Cheman said it all!
Welcome to the StarTools forum. If you could upload the FTS file using a file sharing service like Dropbox, Google Drive, etc., we should get you going in no-time.

StarTools has no levels/curves (aka 'histogram transformation') on purpose, as there are now much better ways of stretching your image both globally (the whole image) and locally (parts of the image that require local treatment to show detail that is hidden).
For global stretching (which is what the levels/curve would be used for), you can either use Develop (a manual way of stretching), or AutoDev (a new way of stretching based on image content analysis).

Personally, I almost always use AutoDev, as it takes into account precisely what is in your image. The latter is a good thing and a bad thing (which actually turns out to be good thing after all!);
AutoDev does its absolute best to show you *everything* in your image, including problems such as noise, stacking artifacts, gradients, dust donuts, etc. This is why an AutoDev is the first thing I do to an image - it lets me see the problems and lets me fix those first (crop stacking artifacts, wipe gradients, bin the image, etc.). And because stretching is non-permanent in StarTools as long as Tracking is on, I can redo the stretch later without worry.
After I have done my best to improve the data set (after cropping, wiping, binning), I can the re-do my stretch using Develop or AutoDev when I am ready to do my final 'real' global stretch. Again, I usually choose AutoDev for this job.

If most of my image contains background (as is the case with your image), you may have to tell AutoDev where exactly the 'interesting' stuff is in your image (click and drag over the galaxy in your case). Otherwise AutoDev will do its best to bring out the noise in the background (because that's what most of the image is made out of - lots and lots of background). You can further tell AutoDev to ignore small things by setting the 'ignore detail smaller than' parameter (hint: noise grain is usually small! ).

AutoDev especially gives you much better results than levels/curves ever could (objectively optimal dynamic range allocation); it never clips your image and it tries it best to not blow out your stars (unless you tell it to) - they'll be nice and pinpoint.

Hope this helps to get you started!

Clear skies,

[fmazzanti]

Dear Srs,

thanks a lot for the quick answers I hope you can provide help such that I can see what can be obtained with my equipment... if anything at all.
I have put the images (or two versions of it with fidderent saving options) in dropbox as suggested. Links are:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54925001/m65-1.fit
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54925001/m65-1.fit

I would love to see a processed version of it (not really much work, I'm sure you experienced people can get something done in five minutes, if you could
please find the time to help me a tad). Once it is done, I'd really love to have a little list of the steps you've followed in order for me to
learn and improve by myself. Or bottom line, to know the limits of what I can get from my observing place and with my sky.
Honestly speaking, I'm willing to see a nice image (if possible) so that I can run to buy a license and start processing images. Most of them have
the same problem with background, I'm sure dut to light pollution.

Thank you very much for your kind help,

Ferran.

[MarcoS]

Good day Ferran,

I 'm also very new to StarTools and to AP as well.
I have been using this program since a couple of month.

I had a go at your file, please find below the results and the steps I did.
please also keep in mind that I'm a novice, and that much better results can be had than mine...

m65-1.JPG (296.32 KiB) Viewed 10565 times

File loaded [C:\Users\Marco\Documents\Telescoop\not-myne\m65-1.fit].
---
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [15 %]
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [38 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [52 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [1378 pixels (-14)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [1013 pixels (-27)]
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [7.8 pixels]
Parameter [Outside ROI Influence] set to [15 %]
--- Color
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [No]
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Increase Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [1.60]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [2.30]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [279 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Increase] set to [1.44]
Parameter [Green Bias Increase] set to [1.17]
Parameter [Red Bias Increase] set to [1.32]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [2]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Redistribution Kernel] set to [4.5 pixels]
Parameter [Read Noise Compensation] set to [Off]
Parameter [Smoothness] set to [75 %]

File saved [C:\Users\Marco\Documents\Telescoop\not-myne\m65-1.tiff].

Best regards
Marco
(still waiting for the rain to stop).....

[fmazzanti]

Hi Marco,

*thanks a lot* for the efforts and time invested invested!! Sure your input is valuable, as your workflow has shown me how to get rid of noise in the background and get something done I appreciate very much the work you did on my image, certainly.
Now I'll check if I can repeat your results...
Is this the maximum one can get from my data? That's an important question for me. maybe others can also chime in and see.
In the meantime I have also uploaded a second image that is the composition of 2 nights (about 4 hours total) on the same object:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/549 ... nights.fit

pitty is I managed to spoil everything on the second (and best) night and couldn't take proper flats, so you'll notice there's a bunch of dounts and gradients on the second image Still the galaxy is better shaped. I don't know if that can be helpful or not...

Thanks a lot again,

Ferran.

[Cheman]

m65-2.jpg (88.06 KiB) Viewed 10558 times

Hi Ferran
It looked to me like the data might have already been manipulated. With out knowing, I told Startools that the data was already stretched and to try to reverse it.
Then just did the following
---
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [96 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [83 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [1289 pixels (-103)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [989 pixels (-51)]
--- Develop
Parameter [White Calibration] set to [Use Stars]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Skyglow] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Digital Development] set to [85.05 %]
Parameter [Blue Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Green Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Red Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [5 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [Off]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [No]
Parameter [Compensate Gamma] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [15 %]
--- Wavelet Sharpen
Parameter [Intelligent Enhance] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
Parameter [Amount] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Small Detail Bias] set to [75 %]
--- HDR
Parameter [Small Detail Precision] set to [Max]
Parameter [Channels] set to [Brightness Only]
Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Optimize Hard]
Parameter [Dark/Bright Response] set to [Full]
Parameter [Detail Size Range] set to [21 pixels]
Parameter [Noise Suppression] set to [Off]
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [3]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Redistribution Kernel] set to [4.5 pixels]
Parameter [Read Noise Compensation] set to [Off]
Parameter [Smoothness] set to [75 %]
File saved [C:\Users\Dave\Desktop\m65-2.jpg].

this is my result in five minutes

All I really did was crop, then manually develop using the Home In Feature, then sharpen, then contrast,, then tried decon but saw no real improvement so didnt keep that, then HDR set to optimize hard, then stop tracking and apply noise reduction.
We'll see what Ivo comes up with as he is the MASTER!!!!!
Che

[Cheman]

Using your 2 nights data this is my quick result

M65_2nights.jpg (64.87 KiB) Viewed 10551 times

File loaded [C:\Users\Dave\Desktop\M65_2nights.fit].
---
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [137 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [171 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [1255 pixels (-137)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [882 pixels (-158)]
--- Develop
Parameter [White Calibration] set to [Use Stars]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Skyglow] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Digital Development] set to [90.22 %]
Parameter [Blue Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Green Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Red Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [5 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [Off]
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
--- Deconvolution
Parameter [Image Type] set to [Deep Space]
Parameter [Mask Behavior] set to [De-ring Mask Gaps, Hide Result]
Parameter [Radius] set to [1.5 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [6]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [1.00 (optimal noise and detail)]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [No]
Parameter [Compensate Gamma] set to [No]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [15 %]
--- HDR
Parameter [Small Detail Precision] set to [Max]
Parameter [Channels] set to [Brightness Only]
Parameter [Algorithm] set to [Optimize Hard]
Parameter [Dark/Bright Response] set to [Full]
Parameter [Detail Size Range] set to [21 pixels]
Parameter [Noise Suppression] set to [Off]
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [3]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Redistribution Kernel] set to [4.5 pixels]
Parameter [Read Noise Compensation] set to [Off]
Parameter [Smoothness] set to [75 %]
File saved [C:\Users\Dave\Desktop\M65_2nights.jpg].
Again, I told StarTools that the data was already stretched and to try to reverse it
Che

[fmazzanti]

Oh thank you all for the time and effort spent. I think this is very profitable and will take note of the setting.
In the meantime I have also tried to process it using trial-and-error settings. I hope somebody can take a look at the result and tell me what does he/she thinks.
I keep wondering if that's the best that can be obtained from this material, and what would I have to do to improve over it. Good advices are more than welcommed, but please consider I can't move my equipment from the present location /it would be nice to move to darker skies but that's out of reach).
Opinions are welcommed!
Thanks,
Ferran.

[admin]

Your latest version is very good!

This is what I came up with (rather similar to Cheman's excellent version);

M65_2nights.jpg (19.16 KiB) Viewed 10520 times

Log as follows;

--- Auto Develop
To see what we got. The data is noisy and contains a lot of gradients and some dust donuts. No flats were taken/applied.
--- Crop
First I crop the image, to get rid of the vertical black bar to the left, and to frame the galaxy a bit better.
Parameter [X1] set to [254 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [350 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [1135 pixels (-257)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [713 pixels (-327)]
--- Wipe
I use Wipe to remove most of the gradients/light pollution. Before I do that, however, I mask out the dust donut/ring at 2 o'clock as this constitutes a 'dark anomaly'.
I further set Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] to [6 pixels] in case there are any other (smaller) dark anomalies.
--- Auto Develop
Final stretch. I created (as previously mentioned) a ROI over the galaxy.
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [2.6 pixels]
--- Deconvolution
Automatically created a mask, but masked back in the galaxy's core.
Parameter [Radius] set to [2.0 pixels]
--- HDR
Reveal preset.
--- Life
Isolate preset, this pushes back the noise further. I cleared and reset the mask first though.
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Final noise reduction.
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [71 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [14 %]

And that's it!